1 hour ago, alder24 said:
No. It's plasma, It's not as dense as solid form and maybe even liquid. It won't form because of its state of matter. Electromagnetic forces would work on that, there is no force pushing it together, compressing it even denser, so it's stuck in the state it is, and can't get denser to form perpendicularity, because of electromagnetic repulsion (or whatever Cosmere forces act on Axi). The movement would actually prevent a perpendicularity from forming, as static Dor would more or less settle on the surface of CR and compress under its own weight.
That's reasonable, that might actually answer the whole question, but would Investiture Axi even have charges?
Quote
It doesn't matter how many Shards form Dor, what matters is its density. And because there is no indication of random perpendicularities opening in random spots, Dor is not dense enough to form perpendicularity, even locally.
Again, it could be, but it's two whole Shards' worth of Investiture. One Shard is already said to have an infinite amount of Investiture, having two infinities is just an absurd amount of power.Given that it will have settled in the depressions of Sel's landmasses, I'm not convinced thatthat much Investiture could fit in such a small space and not beincredibly dense, or denser than any other equivalent massof Investiture in a similar state at the very least.
Quote
It isn't but it's liquid investiture, not Dor. We don't know how Dor looks in Selish CR, but because there is distinction between liquid/pure Dor and plasma-like state of natural Dor, for me this means there is some processing needed to manufacture liquid Dor - liquid isn't plasma. Dor isn't in liquid state.
I think you misunderstood me here. If you had Dor in liquid form, like the Ghostbloods, that should make a Perpendicularity, if in the same amount as the stuff in Devotion's Perpendicularity. Its natural form on Sel is indeed Ionised and not liquid. That's why I specified Liquid Dor:)
Quote
No. Wrong thinking. Just because it's composed of different materials, doesn't mean that the density is twice as much. It can be unchanged, lower or higher, it all depends on properties of this material. Dor might be less investiture dense than liquid Devotion's investiture.
I think it would be, for the reasons above.
Quote
Is 1 g of Harmonium twice as investiture dense as Atium? Or the same? Do 1 g Harmonium is composed of 1 g investiture worth of Atium and 1 g of investiture worth of Lerasium? Or is 1 g of Harmonium composed only of 0.5 grams of Atium/Lerasium's investiture? For me it makes far more sense that Harmonium isn't twice as investiture dense as Atium. The same at most. The same would be with Dor.
That's a different scenario. Harmonium, Lerasium, and Atium could theoretically have any Density of Investiture because there is no requirement on how much Investiture they can or cannot have,whereas the Dor has to include all of the Investiture of two whole Shards.
But for the sake of argument, it doesn't seem too outlandish to me that Harmonium would be twice as Investiture Dense as Atium. A lot of Harmonium together in one place forms a Perpendicularity, which needs a lot of Investiture. It requires so surprisingly little of the Harmonium that people are warned not to storeevensmall amounts of Harmonium together.The Trustwarren, in contrast, held nearly all of the Atium produced by the Pits over a thousand years, and it doesn't form a Perpendicularity. Granted, the Atium produced was an alloy and the Trustwarren was not one massive object, so it probably didn't count as very Investiture Dense, but the fact that Harmonium put close together does hints that it's very Invested. How or why that is, I haven't the foggiest, but it does seem to be the case.
Quote
Lerasium isn't an alloy, and it doesn't glow. Lerasium as a solid state is the most investiture dense state of investiture. Did the Atium cache glow? No. Tens of thousands of Atium beads stored in a big hole didn't create any perpendicularity. Even if alloy would reduce its investiture density, it was still considerably dense.
It would be the most Investiture Dense form of it, but how much Investiture does it have? The beads are small, so it's not unreasonable that they wouldn't have enough to produce a glow.
Quote
Vin didn't glow after taking in all Mists, she leaked them, but didn't glow, nor did Mists glow when they were concentrating below Vin as she was taking them in. Glow isn't always present with investiture. White Sand doesn't glow too.
But there are still visual clues. Vin leaks the Mists (so do people using the Bands) because she's oversaturated with Investiture. I honestly don't know anything about White Sand beyond what's been observed of it in other Cosmere booksbecause I can't get my hands on the White Sand books, so I can't say much about that. But from what I do understand of it, the sand is white because of the lichen that grows on it, and that lichen may be glowingto produce the white effect. I can't say that with 100% certainty though.
Quote
Even Susebron or Nightblood don't glow - they hold huge amounts of investiture but the most they do is to make colors brighter and split white light into its spectrum. Just because Stormlight and Dor glowdoesn't mean every investiture has to glow. Not to mention that different state of the same investiture might behave differently - Dead Shardblade has a weak glow, while living one has very intense glow.
Nightblood has thecolor-enhancing auraI believe, but when he's truly supposed to shine (literally) is when he's unsheathed, but we end up at the same problem in that he's black. He also leaks Investiture like Vin, but that's black too. How fitting that he's so Invested that he shows all three signs of it.
Quote
Only the logbookepigraph is valid, not mythological descriptions of unknown sources. In the logbook it's glassy and metallic, not black or dark. And still doesn't glow. If you stopped trying to reject Ruin's perpendicularity as evidence, Patji wouldn't be an odd one (it still isn't because Devotion's pool doesn't glow as well, and it's bluish iirc).
The one where Vin is thinking about it is her thinking about what she's read from the logbook, so it does indeed refer to the lake as black, just off-page. The description of glassy and metallic isn't mutually exclusive with the color black.
1 hour ago, Treamayne said:
I thougth all Shardpools reflected the Color associate with the Shard:
- Ruin's in the logbook was "great black lake" with "its glassy—almost metallic—sheen" (TFE Ch 29, 33)
- Preservation's was "A glowing white pool." (WoA Ch 58)
- Aona's has "Its water was a crystalline blue" (Elantris Ch 25/HPS)
- Patji's eye isn't much described because it is dark tand they are hiding; but Autonomy's pool on Scadrial seems to be composed of purified Investiture (LM Ch 59 -White, with a mother-of-pearl sheen.Yes.It was like the pure Investiture from Moonlight’s jars.)
- Cultivation's is Green (WoR Ch 46) "Swimming in the emerald pools is death to outsiders" “Place of the gods?” “Yes,” Rock said. “Is where they live. The waters of life, they let you see place. In it, you commune with gods, if you are lucky.”
I think those are all of the ones that have been described on-screen.
My point exactly, thanks for compiling all of them 
Quote
Right. I'm not entirely convinced myself that it might only link the PR and CR. My primary point was that we cannot assume it links all three realms "just because all perpendicularites link all three realms." I'm saying it is possible that because the Dor is in the CR (not the SR) it is also possible that the Arelon Shardpool only links those two realms (even if pre-Splintering it once acted as a normal Perpendicularity). It may be normal. It may glow, and we don't see that because it was Dawn and the characters couldn't see it, Glowing or not may be entirely dependant on the Shard involved.
It was a valid theory to make, it's just very unlikely as we understand it right now.
Quote
Mostly I just want to point out assumptions versus known facts supported by direct evidence.
That's generally a good thing to do, but there's a big gray area where WoBs near-confirm something but not entirely explicitly, so sometimes that's easier said than done.
1 hour ago, alder24 said:
Listing it like that makes sense why they would have colors associated with their Shard. Yes, now I can see it being true. I didn't know Cultivation's perpendicularity was described in such detail. Then it would make sense for Ruin's perpendicularity to be black as well (I was worried that because it wasn't written in Epigraphs, the "great black lake" might be a change made by Ruin).
Like I said just above, when Vin refers to the lake as black, she's thinking of the logbook. You have made me question though, do we know that the epigraphs are unaltered? I had always assumed they were the exact same, altered or not.
Quote
I think there might be something to it, but rather than kinetic investiture, what about sentience? Shardblades are detectable by A-bronze only when summoning is happening, so summoned Shardblade isn't kinetic investiture. But it's sentient. Dead Shardblade have something missing in their mind, their sentience is impaired, that's why they glow less. Preservation's Shardpool is basically made out of Preservation's mind, and Dor is manifesting a mind of its own so TLM's perpendicularity would glow.
That's actually a really good idea, that could totally be the case!
I went for a quick break and have come back, and after ruminating on it for a while, it's not as bulletproof as I originally thought, though it still has merit. My problem is, The Dor isn't very sentient. It can barely be classified as such in Elantris, and even that by the very loosest of terms. Its sentience is defined mostly by wanting release. But where is the line between something wanting to do something and something inclined to do something as a feature of its nature? A ball rolls downhill on a slope. If the ball becomes sentient and wants to roll down the hill, what's the difference? You get the same result either way. Can the Dor truly be called sentient when it's only expressed feature of sentience is"wanting" to do something that it would be inclined to do by its nature anyway?
That's mostly just philosophical rhetoric because I love psychology, but the problem is this: The Dor is not very sentient. It is, but barely. Yet it glows very brightly. Sprenblades, which are fully sapient, don't glow nearly as intensely.
Edit: I just noticed you called Autonomy's Perpendicularity the Dor. We don't know if it's necessarily purified Dor that they're using.
Edited by Underwater_Worldhopper
